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Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

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Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:12 am

Salary Arbitration Pay Scale: BoS will use the stats on www.baseball-reference.com

80-89 R = $1M
90-99 R = $2M
100-109 R = $3M
110+ R = $4M

15-24 HR = $1M
25-34 HR = $2M
35-44 HR = $3M
45+ HR = $4M

80-89 RBI = $1M
90-99 RBI = $2M
100-109 RBI = $3M
110+ RBI = $4M

15-24 SB = $1M
25-34 SB = $2M
35-49 SB = $3M
50+ SB = $4M

.280-.289 Avg = $1M
.290-.299 Avg = $2M
.300-.309 Avg = $3M
.310+ Avg = $4M

14-15 Wins = $1M
16-17 Wins = $2M
18-19 Wins = $3M
20+ Wins = $4M

170-179 K = $1M
180-199 K = $2M
200-214 K = $3M
215+ K = $4M

20-29 SV = $1M
30-39 SV = $2M
40-44 SV = $3M
45+ SV = $4M

3.00-3.30 ERA=$1M
2.50-2.99 ERA=$2M
2.0-2.49 ERA=$3M
1.99- ERA=$4M

1.20-1.29WHIP=$1M
1.10-1.19WHIP=$2M
1.00-1.09WHIP=$3M
0.99- WHIP=$4M


I agree some of the numbers above should be reviewed. and let keep that talk here. I also agree with Phil that maybe some positions should have their own assigned number, like C and i think RP (we should add Holds). also any change should not effect next season but unless we can get something done prior to the start of this season and it give's GM a year to make sure that have adjusted to new #'s

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:17 am

i have always felt R and RBI were high. maybe a 20% drop could work

64-73 R = $1M
74-83 R = $2M
84-85 R = $3M
86+ R = $4M

64-73 RBI = $1M
74-83 RBI = $2M
84-85 RBI = $3M
86+ RBI = $4M

and add Holds

20-29 HLD = $1M
30-39 HLD = $2M
40-44 HLD = $3M
45+ HLD = $4M


Last edited by HELLFISH on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Meant HLD Stats to be the same as SV stats for ARB)

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:20 am

I'm game.

Catchers should be 10% less than those across the board.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:23 am

and for C Position. lets drop the #'s by 20% again since they avg playing about 80% of the total number of games?

Catchers only:

52-61 R = $1M
62-71 R = $2M
72-81 R = $3M
82+ R = $4M

12-21 HR = $1M
22-31 HR = $2M
32-41 HR = $3M
42+ HR = $4M

52-61 RBI = $1M
62-71 RBI = $2M
72-81 RBI = $3M
82+ RBI = $4M

12-21 SB = $1M
22-31 SB = $2M
32-41 SB = $3M
42+ SB = $4M

.280-.289 Avg = $1M
.290-.299 Avg = $2M
.300-.309 Avg = $3M
.310+ Avg = $4M


Last edited by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:24 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:24 am

Integrity wrote:I'm game.

Catchers should be 10% less than those across the board.

I went with 20% check it out. #'s look good

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:30 am

Oh. Yea those numbers are very fair.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:33 am

I'd add that the player must play 25% of games at Catcher.

Although this isn't gonna affect Santana at all, there could be a guy who plays like 10 games at catcher, 10 at 1b, and 135 at Dh. How would we label that guy?

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:36 am

Integrity wrote:I'd add that the player must play 25% of games at Catcher.

Although this isn't gonna affect Santana at all, there could be a guy who plays like 10 games at catcher, 10 at 1b, and 135 at Dh. How would we label that guy?

I say when this happens we go to were he played the highest % of games. so using your number above then CS would be DH and then use the general numbers. even if you were able to use him at C? not sure lets get some other GM's to share there thoughts on this question.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:50 am

I guess there's another argument to be made:

That no matter what, as long as they have C elg, that they should be subject to the scale since we are given the right to use them at C.

Which makes sense. I just think that someone could come up through a system, have some C elg, get arb numbers/ext at a C rate, then lose that elg the following year and potentially be locked into an ext at a C rate but no longer being able to use em that way.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by nostratimus on Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:55 am

I agree with JI re: C eligibility.  25% of at-bats at C makes sense.
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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:06 am

Integrity wrote:I guess there's another argument to be made:

That no matter what, as long as they have C elg, that they should be subject to the scale since we are given the right to use them at C.

Which makes sense. I just think that someone could come up through a system, have some C elg, get arb numbers/ext at a C rate, then lose that elg the following year and potentially be locked into an ext at a C rate but no longer being able to use em that way.

Then y did you bring it up? DICK lol
I was fine with if player has a C in yahoo then he gets C ARB #'s

no perfect system for a C, we just have to agree on one way or the other and move forward, i guess

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Ballbasherz on Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:17 am

If a player has C eligibilty along with other positions the one where he has the most ab`s is where he should be slotted. He would not qualify for C arbitration #`s if his ab`s are higher at another position.
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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:26 am

Well, I am bringing up both sides, so we can be fully clear before we make a decision.

I am sorta torn on this.

Hence wanting discussion.

I'm game for anything, but believe discussion will yield the best course of action.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:34 am

Ballbasherz wrote:If a player has C eligibilty along with other positions the one where he has the most ab`s is where he should be slotted. He would not qualify for C arbitration #`s if his ab`s are higher at another position.

I agree with Mark on this one.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by nostratimus on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:58 am

makes sense.
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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by DmanofGod1 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:31 am

I've only read this now.

I'm not a fan of adding holds and here is why.  Relievers already get a high arb because the likelihood of having lower era and lower whip is much more likely than a starter putting in 200 innings.  He won't hit any strikeout qualifiers but tbh, how many arb guys are hitting 170ks?  Only an elite few.

If we add holds, it puts a 7th or 8th inning guy in the same value category as a closer and that's just not realistic.  

Or at least make the holds qualifiers harder to hit than saves.  Right now, if a guy has 15 holds, he hits a $1M arb qualifier but if he hits 19 saves, he still hasn't earned $1M...what?!  

I'd rather not add them since a big holds guy isn't worth the same money a big closer is getting but if you insist, make it hard to hit holds than saves as saves are more important

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:44 am

DmanofGod1 wrote:I've only read this now.

Or at least make the holds qualifiers harder to hit than saves.  Right now, if a guy has 15 holds, he hits a $1M arb qualifier but if he hits 19 saves, he still hasn't earned $1M...what?!  

I'd rather not add them since a big holds guy isn't worth the same money a big closer is getting but if you insist, make it hard to hit holds than saves as saves are more important

Sorry i mean to copy Saves for Hold and i guess i copied SB.

HOLD ARB #'s should be the same as SV and i'll edit my post above.

I get your point about Set Man not being the same as a Closer, and that's right in real life.
but here a HLD stat holds the same value as a SV stat. if you think about it they pretty much the same except that their are more Hold guys then Closer (since a MLB team could one have one).

but tell me what you think. of the above am i right or wrong. I a balance

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by DmanofGod1 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:59 am

But as for everything else, I love the adjustments you made for RBI and Runs and the adjustments you made for catchers.  Good work Dan!  

This should bring hitters up a little more on par with what they deserve.  

Now for pitchers

I would also adjust the pitcher's ERA and K's.  It's a little ridiculous that a pitcher that has a 3.35 era doesn't qualify for a bonus. Shoot, 3.50 era is good and an era of 3.75 for a starting pitcher is extremely solid, maybe even 4.  Same thing, K qualifiers should start at 150Ks.  That's a good season for a pitcher if he's pitched enough innings to K 150 times.

I would recommend a change in Ks, Saves, and ERA.

150-169 K = $1M
170-189 K = $2M
190-214 K = $3M
215+ K = $4M

15-24 SV = $1M
25-34 SV = $2M
35-44 SV = $3M
45+ SV = $4M

3.99-3.50 ERA=$1M
3.49-2.75 ERA=$2M
2.74-2.00 ERA=$3M
1.99- ERA=$4M


What this does is make it easier to hit some of the $1M qualifiers but extremely hard to hit the more expensive qualifiers $3M and up.  You still aren't hitting $3M until you have 190Ks, 35 Saves and a 2.74 era or lower.  So this new scale makes sure guys aren't getting any arb at all.  It's a little ridiculous that most the arb guys aren't getting more than a minimum salary offer.  But it still keeps the arb numbers lower for average guys and higher for elite guys.  

Also, relievers will be much more likely to hit these qualifiers but again, if we don't have holds, then they also won't be hitting the strikeout category and it will keep them lower than starting pitchers.  

I understand your rationale that a holds stat is just as valuable as a saves stat but you can't tell me monetary wise in our league that we pay the same money for holds as we do for saves.  Top holds guys never get the contracts that closers do and that should reflect in our arb.

I'm just warning you that if you add holds, set up guys will get higher arb numbers than starting pitchers and that is extremely unrealistic.  Set up guys will be hitting elite era and whip qualifiers and holds qualifers.

Take the example of a guy that set up guy that has a 2.35 era, 1.03 whip and 25 holds.  That's a 7 mil hit and a certain % based on that hit.  That is A LOT for a holds guy.  I'd rather cut him and sign a guy to a .8/.8 contract since holds are so easy to come by.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Xezus on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:23 am

I like everything regarding the lowering of overall numbers and the catchers having a different scale. I am also with dustin on the set up men not receiving the same scale as closers. Closers always get paid more in real life and in our league.  I would also agree with mark and Dan that wherever a player takes the most at bats should be where he gets his arbitration scale from.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:35 am

DmanofGod1 wrote:

I'm just warning you that if you add holds, set up guys will get higher arb numbers than starting pitchers and that is extremely unrealistic.  Set up guys will be hitting elite era and whip qualifiers and holds qualifers.

Take the example of a guy that set up guy that has a 2.35 era, 1.03 whip and 25 holds.  That's a 7 mil hit and a certain % based on that hit.  That is A LOT for a holds guy.  I'd rather cut him and sign a guy to a .8/.8 contract since holds are so easy to come by.

Your right. may be for RP (not a closer)  we keep the ARB stats above, but change the end results

FOR RP ONLY
3rd year (*Super 2)- 30% of salary, Max $2.5M, and Min of $800k
4th year- 40% of salary, Max $3M, and Min of $1M
5th year- 60% of salary, Max $3.5M, and Min of $1.2M
6th year- 80% of salary, Max $4M, and Min of $1.5M

I figure there may be a few elite RP that get the max above i also drop the % of Salary paid.

so to make an example - am going to use Luis Avilan (ATL-RP) who had a great season for an RP last year. Lets see what he would get paid in 3-6th year.
Using Hold and Dustin's pitching adjustments.

Luis Avilan (ATL-RP) '13
Wins: 5 = $0
K's: 38 = $0
SV: 0 = $0
ERA: 1.52 = $4M
WHIP: 0.95 = $4M
Hold: 27 = $1

Total 9M
Now using my RP payment scale:
3rd year: @ 30% $2.7M so Max is $2.5M
4th Year: @ 40% $3.6M so Max is $3M
5th Year: @ 60% $5.4M so Max is $3.5M
6th Year: @ 80% $7.2M so Max is $4M

What do you think. Max could be a little lower?

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by DmanofGod1 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:45 am

That's fine, Dan.

If you want to make separate scales for RP and SP, that would solve the problem too.  

But again, keep in mind that right now a starter can go
13-7, 169 Ks, 3.31 ERA, 1.2 WHIP and will then be rewarded with the minimum arb salary.  He only hits the WHIP qualifier there but it's not enough to put him above minimum salary.  That's crazy. 

I think that the scale should be adjusted for starters like i mentioned.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:52 am

DmanofGod1 wrote:That's fine, Dan.

If you want to make separate scales for RP and SP, that would solve the problem too.  

But again, keep in mind that right now a starter can go
13-7, 169 Ks, 3.31 ERA, 1.2 WHIP and will then be rewarded with the minimum arb salary.  He only hits the WHIP qualifier there but it's not enough to put him above minimum salary.  That's crazy. 

I think that the scale should be adjusted for starters like i mentioned.

YEs i was using your scale Dustin. i like SP scale and the RP payment scale. but i agree i still think the RP payment i post is high. i like you would rather drop and resign different player.

rp should be more like this (now that i did the example above.

3rd year (*Super 2)- 20% of salary, Max $1M, and Min of $800k
4th year- 30% of salary, Max $1.2M, and Min of $1M
5th year- 40% of salary, Max $1.6M, and Min of $1.2M
6th year- 50% of salary, Max $2M, and Min of $1.5M

this is more then fair for a Great RP season.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by London (Kiefer) on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:53 am

I do like the idea of catchers having abit different of a scale but we would really need to set a min % of games at catcher on that I agree 25 would work. I like most of the new scales and agree RP defiantly need different arb numbers then starters. I like dustins adjustments as well.
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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by DmanofGod1 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:08 am

Those maxes are way too low Dan. The ones you had above were fine.

Top relievers should be paid like top relievers but it just cant get out of hand

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:28 am

Yes, the new scales are needed!!

I am on board!

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:48 am

Here is were we are at.
Salary Arbitration Pay Scale: BoS will use the stats on www.baseball-reference.com

this is what in the rule book now:  

80-89 R = $1M
90-99 R = $2M
100-109 R = $3M
110+ R = $4M

15-24 HR = $1M
25-34 HR = $2M
35-44 HR = $3M
45+ HR = $4M

80-89 RBI = $1M
90-99 RBI = $2M
100-109 RBI = $3M
110+ RBI = $4M

15-24 SB = $1M
25-34 SB = $2M
35-49 SB = $3M
50+ SB = $4M

.280-.289 Avg = $1M
.290-.299 Avg = $2M
.300-.309 Avg = $3M
.310+ Avg = $4M

14-15 Wins = $1M
16-17 Wins = $2M
18-19 Wins = $3M
20+ Wins = $4M

170-179 K = $1M
180-199 K = $2M
200-214 K = $3M
215+ K = $4M

20-29 SV = $1M
30-39 SV = $2M
40-44 SV = $3M
45+ SV = $4M

3.00-3.30 ERA=$1M
2.50-2.99 ERA=$2M
2.0-2.49 ERA=$3M
1.99- ERA=$4M

1.20-1.29WHIP=$1M
1.10-1.19WHIP=$2M
1.00-1.09WHIP=$3M
0.99- WHIP=$4M

Above Are the OLD

____________________________________________

and here are the adjustment so far(Change in Red).

64-73 R = $1M
74-83 R = $2M
84-85 R = $3M
86+ R = $4M


15-24 HR = $1M
25-34 HR = $2M
35-44 HR = $3M
45+ HR = $4M

64-73 RBI = $1M
74-83 RBI = $2M
84-85 RBI = $3M
86+ RBI = $4M


15-24 SB = $1M
25-34 SB = $2M
35-49 SB = $3M
50+ SB = $4M

.280-.289 Avg = $1M
.290-.299 Avg = $2M
.300-.309 Avg = $3M
.310+ Avg = $4M

14-15 Wins = $1M
16-17 Wins = $2M
18-19 Wins = $3M
20+ Wins = $4M

150-169 K = $1M
170-189 K = $2M
190-214 K = $3M
215+ K = $4M


15-24 SV = $1M
25-34 SV = $2M
35-44 SV = $3M
45+ SV = $4M

20-29 HLD = $1M
30-39 HLD = $2M
40-44 HLD = $3M
45+ HLD = $4M

3.99-3.50 ERA=$1M
3.49-2.75 ERA=$2M
2.74-2.00 ERA=$3M
1.99- ERA=$4M


1.20-1.29WHIP=$1M
1.10-1.19WHIP=$2M
1.00-1.09WHIP=$3M
0.99- WHIP=$4M

C Position lets drop the #'s by 20% again since they avg playing about 80% of the total number of games?
You will only Get C ARB if the most game played is at the C positions.

Catchers only:

52-61 R = $1M
62-71 R = $2M
72-81 R = $3M
82+ R = $4M

12-21 HR = $1M
22-31 HR = $2M
32-41 HR = $3M
42+ HR = $4M

52-61 RBI = $1M
62-71 RBI = $2M
72-81 RBI = $3M
82+ RBI = $4M

12-21 SB = $1M
22-31 SB = $2M
32-41 SB = $3M
42+ SB = $4M

.280-.289 Avg = $1M
.290-.299 Avg = $2M
.300-.309 Avg = $3M
.310+ Avg = $4M

Payment for FOR RP ONLY
(Non Closer, RP will be consider CL if he reaches the SV Scales)

3rd year (*Super 2)- 30% of salary, Max $2.5M, and Min of $800k
4th year- 40% of salary, Max $3M, and Min of $1M
5th year- 60% of salary, Max $3.5M, and Min of $1.2M
6th year- 80% of salary, Max $4M, and Min of $1.5M

I think this works Guys.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:54 am

I'm game.

Was thinking of a couple small adjustments, but considering guys can qualify in multiple cats, no need to get too fine on one area when each cat is in line with others.

I dig it.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by DmanofGod1 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:01 am

Everything looks great to me.

We may adjust it in a couple of years if anything looks out of sorts in the future but this is a great improvement as rookie contracts become more important.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:04 am

Should we vote or just add to rule book since this is an adjustment to make payments fair and more in line with what should be paid.

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Re: Salary Arbitration Pay Scale

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:10 am

To me, this easily a Commish Call.

But, you'll get 10 votes anyway.

And this should go for the guys that come up after this yr.

Even tho it'll make it more for Santana, but hey, League First!

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