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Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

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Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:21 am

Most of us agreed the current rule is Broke,

1) I will be put to vote for immediate change that draft order be base on Wining %  for pick 1-10, with the order going from Lowest to Highest. pick 11-16 will be based on the time the team are kicked from playoffs, so first two team knocked out based on season winning % will get 11 &12, next two team 13 & 14, last picks will be determine by the championship series losing team pick 15 winning team 16

Now for my Nutting IDEA. 
reason for this Idea: i feel our biggest problem in our league, although i feel we have Great GM's. I think some decide early in the season that they are not going to go for the championship. Which i don't blame some team, cuz it a reality some team are better then other. But that should not be rewarded for not trying to be the best they can be and at least try to win each and every weekly match up. 

Why should the 7th Seed Sudbury not be rewarded for at least giving it the old college try. Well actually it's the Fountain Valley 7 that was really the bridesmaid this year.


Here is my Suggestion and this would go into play in year 2016 Draft (Since '14 and '15 picks have been traded)
so '14 & '15 draft would be as note above, then in 2016 we would use the following


Pick 1-10 will be awarded to the NON- Playoff in  winning % order , but from Highest to Lowest. then the playoff teams would follow, pick 11-16 will be based on the time the team are kicked from playoffs, so first two team knocked out based on season winning % will get 11 &12, next two team 13 & 14, last picks will be determine by the championship series losing team pick 15 winning team 16

So base on the way this year ended here is how the draft would look. 

#1 Pick Fountain Valley Barons .524
#2 Pick Sudbury Expos .514
#3 Pick Canton Playmakers .505
#4 Pick Michigan Marauders .473
#5 Pick Philadelphia Phanatics .466
#6 Pick London Phillies .455
#7 Pick RockyMountainMisfit .447
#8 Pick San Diego Nine .409
#9 Pick Texas Bird Dogs .390
#10 Pick Ann Arbor Residuals .BAD
#11 Pick Akron Littleguys .533 Playoff 1st Round Loser
#2 Pick Tijuana Infiernofish .534 Playoff 1st Round Loser
#3 Pick New York Sewer Rats .559 Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#4 Pick Los Angeles Clusters .654 Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#5 Pick Arizona Desert Stars Championship LOSER
#6 Pick Toronto Moosehead BOS CHAMPS

What am try to do is make team that really would know that they are out of the race still be active to try to get a high draft pick. and Not just award the worst team in the league for just being bad. 

I don't know about how you guys are but i try to win every week even when my team has been bad. 

What do you guys think


Last edited by HELLFISH on Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed Mark team winning %)

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by ericdm70 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:35 am

I like the first part, not sure about the 2nd part. If your team stinks, you should not be allowed to sign top free agents. Look at the Astros, they have stunk, so no one signs there.

16th Place, can't sign top 6 Free Agents
15th Place, can't sign top 5 Free Agents
14th Place, can't sign top 4 Free Agents
13th Place, Can't sign top 3 Free Agents
12th Place, Can't sign top 2 Free Agents

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:36 am

So FV gets the 1st pick in the draft. I set my line up everyday and play to win every match and now I get booted from picking 4th to 7th. No way am I on board with this. You are making it too complicated. Keep it simple with the winnig % being the determining factor except  for the last 2 positions who will get picks 15/16
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:39 pm

I like it.

If you are not making the playoffs, you are playing to get a better pick.

Keeps teams fully active all year.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:49 pm

I don't mind part 1 (about playoff elimination deciding draft position). The others i dont like. Trying to win and actually winning are two different things. Trying to win every week means setting your lineups and hoping the team you put together beats the other team. Maybe reading some match ups and benching/starting other players. And not being able to sign top free agents because your team didn't do well? No way in hell. Injuries or teams building from the ground up are punished way too much. There are plenty of guys that wouldn't mind being the face of a franchise on the rise in real life. Or one harbored by some big name injuries. Also the worst teams now don't have a max contract priority on the top guys.  Aside from that I am planning on big free agent signings in the future to help my young team. (A major reason why I have been saving money)

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:57 pm

And with that draft order the 7th place team gets 1st pick. 6th gets 11th pick or worse. Even some teams in the middle of the pack know without some crazy luck they have no shot at the big dogs. If I am right in line for a playoff spot in 6th place and I lose two good pitchers or big name guys  to injuries holy hell let me fall back to 7th so I get first pick.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:17 pm

If our biggest problem with this is the dynamic between 7th place getting 1st pick, and 6th place getting in the playoffs with a shot at the ring, then we are in good shape.

It's baseball. I'd rather get in as a 6 seed where anything can happen, then have to wait 3-4 yrs on a top pick to mature. But that's just me.

I understand others in that 6-7 range, may want the top pick, but if you get in, anything can happen.

Overall, this makes people fight all year. And to me, it is not meant to penalize the teams who are near the bottom, but more to reward the teams that put together good campaigns, but just miss the postseason.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by nostratimus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:32 pm

Although I see your point Dan, I agree with others that giving 7th place the 1st overall and so forth is too much.  Maybe the bottom 4 teams play out your idea.  13th gets #1, 14th gets #2, etc.  However, to keep teams from trying to drop down to the top 4, maybe we lock the bottom 4 teams after let's just say week 16.  From there, those 4 teams have 6 weeks to try to earn the best record for #1 overall pick.  Just an idea.  I know the traditionalists will hate all these ideas but I am all for creating a league where the bottom dwellers can't just expect the top rated prospect.  That's why the real leagues have a lottery.  Kinda hard to do a lottery in fantasy so let's get some ideas.  If some feel it's too complicated, then let somebody else take the responsibility and do any related math work. I would happily do it if it needed.  

Peter also had an idea from an article that's similar to my idea (which spawned from Peter's post).  Can anybody repost it? It's a little more complicated but easy math an eight year old can do.

Don't forget about the PERFORMANCE-BASED SALARY CAP!  I will always like this idea.  Maybe we'll see the bottom feeders actually make a race to move up so they can earn more cap space.  

Whatever, we decide on, it's all for making this league more competitive.  This year, we had 8 teams still in the running for the playoffs at the halfway point.  With 6-8 weeks to go, there were only 7 teams left and it wasn't even close.  Only Akron's late demise made it close for Sudbury and FV and it wasn't even that close.
The system aint broke, you're right.  BUT it's also not perfect so let's explore!!!

JI's right, if this is our biggest problem, then we're in good shape!


Last edited by nostratimus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by ericdm70 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:34 pm

@nostratimus wrote:Although I see your point Dan, I agree with others that giving 7th place the 1st overall and so forth is too much.  Maybe the bottom 4 teams play out your idea.  13th gets #1, 14th gets #2, etc.  However, to keep teams from trying to drop down to the top 4, maybe we lock the bottom 4 teams after let's just say week 16.  From there, those 4 teams have 6 weeks to try to earn the best record for #1 overall pick.  Just an idea.  I know the traditionalists will hate all these ideas but I am all for creating a league where the bottom dwellers can't just expect the top rated prospects.  That's why the real leagues have a lottery.  Kinda hard to do a lottery in fantasy so let's get some ideas.  If some feel it's too complicated, then let somebody else take the responsibility and do any related math work. I would happily do it if it needed.  

Peter also had an idea from an article that's similar to my idea (which spawned from Peter's post).  Can anybody repost it? It's a little more complicated but easy math an eight year old can do.

Don't forget about the PERFORMANCE-BASED SALARY CAP!  I will always like this idea.  Maybe we'll see the bottom feeders actually make a race to move up so they can earn more cap space.  

Whatever, we decide on, it's all for making this league more competitive.  This year, we had 8 teams still in the running for the playoffs at the halfway point.  With 6-8 weeks to go, there were only 7 teams left and it wasn't even close.  Only Akron's late demise made it close for Sudbury and FV and it wasn't even that close.
The system aint broke, you're right.  BUT it's also not perfect so let's explore!!!

JI's right, if this is our biggest problem, then we're in good shape!



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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:36 pm

*Ego waking back up*



Now if only those rag-tags could have scored 1 sunday run..

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:52 pm

I fail to see where the problem is with the system we have now. The only question should be between who pick 15/16. You are trying to punish the teams that are in the middle of a rebuild. We all know that it takes 3-5 years and some savvy drafting and trading to get it accomplished. Darrin and Dustin are going to reap their rewards next year. I`m still a year or two away and  some are still floundering with no identity. To go changing the draft scenario now will be a huge detriment to those in the rebuilding process because they depend on those high picks to help with the rebuild.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Doug on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:21 pm

I think we're on the verge of making something that works pretty well, very complicated. If we find evidence that a team is playing for next year's draft picks rather than this year's standings, I'd be more in favor of draft pick penalties, instead of re-formulating the entire draft.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:25 pm

am just get a feel for it guys, maybe we like it maybe we don't just looking for what you guys think. never a bad thing to spice it up. 

I for one will never want the No. 1 pick it it means my team came in last place. i hate last place and rewarding it. just how i feel about it

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:37 pm

Hey if a team spends the season looking up at a bunch of assholes he deserves the 1st pick. just sayin
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:39 pm

And I have no idea how that imageshack got on there but worse I don`t know how to get rid of it  Question
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:39 pm

@HELLFISH wrote:am just get a feel for it guys, maybe we like it maybe we don't just looking for what you guys think. never a bad thing to spice it up. 

I for one will never want the No. 1 pick it it means my team came in last place. i hate last place and rewarding it. just how i feel about it

I got the No. 1 pick this year because someone else came in last place  Laughing

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:49 pm

@Doug wrote:I think we're on the verge of making something that works pretty well, very complicated. If we find evidence that a team is playing for next year's draft picks rather than this year's standings, I'd be more in favor of draft pick penalties, instead of re-formulating the entire draft.

Doug

I like the idea of draft penalties better.

Although I still think people are getting stuck on some ambiguous judgement of who is "trying" and who is not.  Planning for a better team next year is not a lack of trying. Holding back "rookie" players that are performing fine at the major league level is not a lack of  trying (major league teams hold guys back all the time to stall their salary clocks from starting early *Cubs and Kris Bryant might not be that exactly, but the same idea*.  Not signing people in the off-season who you think are getting paid too much money is not a lack of trying.   Trying and losing, while getting penalized for losing more than other people just seems crazy to me.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:02 pm

Fixed your sig, Mark. I think the Jersey sigs that you had expired or something.

As for Darrin, a lot of your points are valid.

I just figure that it'd make it exciting for the teams that miss the playoffs to have something to play for.

Helps ensure more competition, which could be good for all.

But as Dan said, would have to be in place for a couple of years down the line since teams have dealt picks.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:30 pm

draftpicklottery.com has a weighted random draft selector.  In their model they use the last place team would get that many ping pong balls in the lottery. 16th place gets 16 balls, 15th gets 15 and so forth.  This was we could do our own lottery for the bottom few teams.  I am sure with more digging we could find places/websites to do randomized draft order generation with our own custom probabilities for each team.  And if we want to just randomize the bottom of our draft we can just run the lottery for those teams and not the playoff teams.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:38 pm

So, you are really THAT opposed to the non-playoff teams fighting for better draft position?

I thought people would think that would be exciting.

A lotto seems cool as well, though.

I will not be there in 2015, but in 2016-2018, I will most likely be, haha.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Doug on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:41 pm

seems to me like we're really overthinking it. How broken is the current system? I understand I may be in the minority here.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:52 pm

It not like owners can start "trying" during the year and magically have their team perform better.  No, you put together what you can in the offseason and roll the dice.  There are NO big name free agents happening in the middle of the season that will make any significant difference. Perhaps there could be call-ups but I don't like the idea of pressuring people to call up their players if they have a longer term plan in the works or don't want a bunch of guys hitting RFA at the same time. So we are left with trades.  Now even guys on the last year of unrestricted contracts values just went up for everyone.  Even the teams that don't need that player this year, would rather trade him to a contender for a nicer piece for next year (SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MLB ALMOST EVERY YEAR), are now holding onto him to try and score a better draft pick.  And depending on how you value a high draft pick, I for damn sure am not sacrificing my teams long term value trying to move up a few places that aren't even in the playoffs.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:04 pm

I just think it'd make people more actively engaged.

I can point to 4 signings that I made during the year that helped propel me. I mean, altho I was kicking butt in my division, adding guys like Hendricks, deGrom, Santana, and a couple of others made a big difference.

While thankful that I did well in a lot of signings, I feel that if we had something like this in place, a lot of teams that are 'out of it' or whatever, would have made more of an effort to either grab those guys, or make me pay more.

To me, something like this gives teams more of an incentive to fight during the year, and be actively engaged all throughout the season.

Whether it actually improves records or not is to be determined, obviously, but I think we could all agree that the more competition a league shows, the better it is as a whole. 

Maybe you call up your rookies to help you finish better, maybe you do not. But that would be entirely up to you. There'd be a potential reward while doing so, and if you still choose to delay their clocks, then you'd do so knowing the risk.

Just think this would make for a tighter league. While I am on one end of the spectrum, I am about a year and a half from being on the other end, and I'd gladly sacrifice those potential benefits for a better league.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:38 pm

Thanks JI. Doug I am with you 100%

As for these other suggestions I will be damned if I will call up my players to maybe have a shot at a better draft pick. Now you are interfering with how a manger manages his team.

Yeah I`m usually the nay sayer but this is just going to far. I agree with Doug, you guys are way over thinking this. The system is not broken so leave it alone. You guys are really taking the fun out of this league with all these perceived changes that do not need to be changed. Why can`t we go through a season or two and let the previous changes take affect before surging forward with more just for the sake of change.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:43 pm

No worries.

Just think that it makes teams give their best effort at all times throughout the year.

I get how/why people wanna hold their rooks back, but I hate it in real life, and in fantasy, haha.

More fun when the best players are going!

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by nostratimus on Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:59 pm

@Xezus wrote:It not like owners can start "trying" during the year and magically have their team perform better.  No, you put together what you can in the offseason and roll the dice.  There are NO big name free agents happening in the middle of the season that will make any significant difference. Perhaps there could be call-ups but I don't like the idea of pressuring people to call up their players if they have a longer term plan in the works or don't want a bunch of guys hitting RFA at the same time. So we are left with trades.  Now even guys on the last year of unrestricted contracts values just went up for everyone.  Even the teams that don't need that player this year, would rather trade him to a contender for a nicer piece for next year (SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MLB ALMOST EVERY YEAR), are now holding onto him to try and score a better draft pick.  And depending on how you value a high draft pick, I for damn sure am not sacrificing my teams long term value trying to move up a few places that aren't even in the playoffs.

Well, I'm all for throwing out ideas and suggestions to see what ppl have to say. Something about Darrin's post has made me flip to the other side. It's true that most owners won't call up a rook just to try and gain one or two spots in the draft. So maybe we just leave it as is until the system gets abused. I don't think that's happening right now and I don't think that's why Dan, JI, others and I are suggesting these changes.

After this season, it was more the anti-climactic lead up to our playoff races. All had pretty much been set and it's not a lot of fun when half the league is in rebuilding mode. I guess it was just one of those years where it happens. With the emergence of Akron and Philly and many of the middling teams close to contending (injuries or a couple of star FA's away), next season may be more competitive. Hoping it is!

So in finally agreeing with Mark, maybe we see if this non-competitive trend lasts a few years and if so, that's when we try to do something. Part of talking about it now though for any rule to take place in 2017-18 is being proactive. It's not always about suggesting to make changes just for the sake of it…moreso to see how we can make things better even if there are no problems.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by johnscrn on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:05 pm

I'm new to the league and have no input on whether or not the current system works. It seems to me that the one proposed is to harsh since in a perfect world, which this league may or may not be close to, everyone would try hard and yet someone would still have to finish last. If you want to promote parody that person should get first pick. 

The best system I have heard of has been proposed to the NBA but I doubt they will be smart enough to use it. Basically as soon as a team is eliminated from the playoffs their wins start being counted and the team with the most wins at the end of the season would get the first overall pick. This means the worst team in the league would get more time to accumulate wins but would have to actually try otherwise they will be passed by the next team that gets eliminated. 

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement however since someone would have to calculate when a team is mathematically eliminated. Either way, just a thought we can expand on to work with this league if people are interested. I think it would still allow the worst team to have a good shot at first pick but they would have to keep trying to win to keep it. 

If you really want the lottery option I suggest draftlotto.com since it will send an email out to each manager with the results so we can trust the person who entered the data. You could use wins as the number of balls in the lottery but I don't think a lottery would be needed with that system.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:10 pm

Tim's post is pretty spot on.

Perhaps we may need another year or so to evaluate.

But, how about that Performance Based Cap? haha

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:25 pm

There were 9 of the 16 teams with winning % over .500. The closet division was 11 games out,all the others were 20+ games out. Of the remaining 7 teams at least 4 were still rebuilding and the others are doing god knows what.My point being is that the league is in very good shape because most of the top teams will still be competitive and the rebuilders will be starting to get into the mix too.So within the next year or two you will have so many teams vying for the playoff spots the races will be much tighter. I can see about 4 maybe 5 teams that will finish below .500 and in a 16 team league that to me spells success. So I don`t see why we have to go meddling with something that does not need to be meddled with. Let what we have now have a chance to run it`s course before you go messing with it. We change rules one year then another year etc and we never get the chance to see the finished product because they keep getting changed.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by bshirt7 on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:59 am

Here is my two cents.

Similar to Dan's idea...In other leagues that I am in and are keeper leagues, The winner of the consolation bracket gets the first pick, 2nd pick goes to the runner up, and then the rest is figured by winning%..so 
 
#1 Pick  Consolation Bracket winner
#2 Pick  Consolation Bracket Runner up
#3 Pick  thru #10 Pick  based on season winning % lowest 3rd pick highest 10th pick
#11 Pick Playoff 1st Round Loser
#12 Pick  Playoff 1st Round Loser
#13 Pick Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#14 Pick Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#15 Pick  Championship LOSER
#16 Pick BOS CHAMPS


Seems to work well in the other leagues I am in. That way there is something to play for. Also seems the fairest cause if you doesn't do well,  due a number of things. you still get a decent pick. 
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