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Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by expos on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:19 pm

I would vote yeah for both. And as Tim said..in 2 years it will be hard to find a more likely bottom dweller than Sudbury.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by DmanofGod1 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:44 am

Yea I like it Tim.  The bottom teams will still have too much money but at least it's something.  

Although, if the salary cap is 175 mil, how come only four teams are at that or above?

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by johnscrn on Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:27 am

my team was last place and had 2million left. If he didn't have the money to buyout bad contracts I would have an even worse team right now. I also have no prospects. Your system would not allow me to turn this team around. 
Although there may be something I don't understand because I'm new. Could you tell me why bottom dwellers have so much money left? Is there not enough FAs in the offseason?
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by nostratimus on Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:20 am

@DmanofGod1 wrote:Yea I like it Tim.  The bottom teams will still have too much money but at least it's something.  

Although, if the salary cap is 175 mil, how come only four teams are at that or above?

I started at 180 and worked down. The numbers can change so that we start higher or lower. However, after discovering that the bottom 4 only used 110, 150 (more like 134), 129, 113, then the 160m cap for the last place teams seems reasonabe.

Why do only 4 teams in this model have a cap of 175 plus? We've discussed the notion that as all of our rookie contracts mature, as we are now in year 6 of the league, there is going to be too much money in the league. Look at Philly's trim payroll of about 60 mil in 2015 (that's including the 16mil of released players). My math could be wrong here but with his 79mil in the war chest, doesn't he have 115 left in his cap plus 79 in war chest for a total of just under 200mil to spend if he wishes? If the math is right, that's a lot of money and it's only for one team. Now Philly played the system right way and kudos to him. With all these rookie contracts turning into formidable roster players, the 175 cap across the board will be too much.

Hope that explains it better Dustin. Again, if enough ppl like this system, the numbers can be played with but so far, it seems to have considered both issues of why only 160m for the bottom and why only 175+ for the top.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by nostratimus on Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:21 am

@johnscrn wrote:my team was last place and had 2million left. If he didn't have the money to buyout bad contracts I would have an even worse team right now. I also have no prospects. Your system would not allow me to turn this team around. 
Although there may be something I don't understand because I'm new. Could you tell me why bottom dwellers have so much money left? Is there not enough FAs in the offseason?

John, you inherited an awful team…make no mistake about it. That team was poorly managed and the roster reflects it. The fact you only had 2mil left was due to those buyouts, plus you (prev manager) ate 20mil of braun's salary and few other players too for a total of 66mil in released players. That's a lot!

Next season, your payroll is sitting pretty at 70mil with only 4.5mil going to released players = 75mil. That's 100mil in cap space for you to put in the bank or spend wisely on FAs. In 2016, you're only on the hook for 27mil in payroll. That's almost 150mil in cap room. Remember though that you can only roll over 50mil (max) into your war chest after each season. So theoretically, you can rollover 50mil in the next 2 years and have 100mil sitting in your war chest by the time these changes take into effect. that's a lot of money to turn things around. Finish near bottom the next 2 years and you should also be adding highly ranked prospects to your farm. You seem active and capable of moving this team in the right direction based on your hockey moves and what Dustin is saying about you in football.

You're in much better shape than Sudbury. Yes he won it all in 2013 but his window has pretty much closed and after that, he has nothing from what the previous owners left him. They sold the future every year to compete and compete they did. 3 straight finals with 3 straight owners. 1 championship!

The biggest difference is that you have the ability to save money and spend it where you want. Sudbury is already committed to 160mil next year and he inherited much of that.

You're not sitting as bad as you think…in 2 years Very Happy
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by johnscrn on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:12 am

just saying, lower this teams cap space and those buyouts would not be able to be pulled forward and so this team would be less competitive the following year(just using this team as an example of what could happen in the future). 

I do believe I haven't been in this league long enough to understand what I need to to participate in this discussion. I'll read for awhile
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:37 am

John, Your participation is more than welcome. You got dealt a shitty team and it`s going to take a few years and some shrewd dealing to bring it back to respectability. 

If you are not sure of something do not hesitate to ask. There is always someone around to help out.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by nostratimus on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:49 am

@Ballbasherz wrote:John, Your participation is more than welcome. You got dealt a shitty team and it`s going to take a few years and some shrewd dealing to bring it back to respectability. 

If you are not sure of something do not hesitate to ask. There is always someone around to help out.

Haha, just don't deal with JI Very Happy Altho his trade magic has gone by the wayside or his lucky horseshoes are starting to slip out of that ever widening a$$hole that may still continue to spew bull Razz

We've seen him deal away some nice pieces and he kinda crawled into the playoffs this year. Maybe you should deal with him Very Happy

Go for the jugular Twisted Evil
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Doug on Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:06 am

I jus hope we don't start to over complicate the entire league.

Q: what is my cap for next year?
A: well, let's see here, we start with your age, add the last two numbers of your drivers license number, divide by the square root of your social security number, Europe won the Ryder Cup, right hand on red, and here's your cap #.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:37 am

LMFAO Doug. That is beautiful.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by HELLFISH on Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:54 pm

@HELLFISH wrote:
@bshirt7 wrote:Here is my two cents.

Similar to Dan's idea...In other leagues that I am in and are keeper leagues, The winner of the consolation bracket gets the first pick, 2nd pick goes to the runner up, and then the rest is figured by winning%..so 
 
#1 Pick  Consolation Bracket winner
#2 Pick  Consolation Bracket Runner up
#3 Pick  thru #10 Pick  based on season winning % lowest 3rd pick highest 10th pick
#11 Pick Playoff 1st Round Loser
#12 Pick  Playoff 1st Round Loser
#13 Pick Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#14 Pick Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#15 Pick  Championship LOSER
#16 Pick BOS CHAMPS


Seems to work well in the other leagues I am in. That way there is something to play for. Also seems the fairest cause if you doesn't do well,  due a number of things. you still get a decent pick. 
Wow this is way Beter then my idea. It's like a playoff for the 7-16 place. But again if any change is made it will not be until 2-3 year down the road.


Not sure we can use the Consolation as a way since only six of the 10 team are in the Bracket?  Not sure is i can set for all 10 teams (not enough time).

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by HELLFISH on Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:25 pm

@johnscrn wrote:
 Basically as soon as a team is eliminated from the playoffs their wins start being counted and the team with the most wins at the end of the season would get the first overall pick. This means the worst team in the league would get more time to accumulate wins but would have to actually try otherwise they will be passed by the next team that gets eliminated. 

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement however since someone would have to calculate when a team is mathematically eliminated. Either way, just a thought we can expand on to work with this league if people are interested. I think it would still allow the worst team to have a good shot at first pick but they would have to keep trying to win to keep it. 
This will work best, but calculating when a team is mathematically out would be a "Son of a Bitch". I would say we make this simple by saying, we use 2nd half winning % (best 2 winning %) for the top 2 picks and then pick 3-10 season winning % (lowset to Highest). or top 4 picks. great thing about using 2nd half winning % for 10 non playoffs team is we can decide how many picks can be effected? 

this is something i can figure out ez, since I ready figure out % for league records, I can do one for top two picks. and track it weekly. 

Again any change would be 2 years down the road. 

so for example
below are the winning % for entire year , i will place a 2nd half winning % as (.999), 

#1 Pick Fountain Valley Barons .524 (.566) Highest winning % 2nd Half, jump form 10 to 1
#2 Pick Canton Playmakers .505 (.523) 2nd Highest winning % 2nd Half, Jump from 8 to 2

Then 3-10 based on entire season winning % Lowest to Highest
#3 Pick Ann Arbor Residuals .369 (.407) Drop from 1 to 3
#4 Texas Bird Dogs .390 (.364) Drop from 2 to 4 

#5 San Diego Nine .409 (.381) Drop from 3 to 5

#6 RockyMountainMisfit .447 (.439) Drop from 4 to 6

#7 London Phillies .455 (.457) Drop from 5 to 7

# 8 Philadelphia Phanatics .466 (.492) Drop from 6 to 8

# 9 Michigan Marauders .473 (.500) Drop from 7 to 9

#10 Sudbury Expos .514 (.518) Drop from 9 to 10
#11 Pick Akron Littleguys .533 Playoff 1st Round Loser
#2 Pick Tijuana Infiernofish .534 Playoff 1st Round Loser
#3 Pick New York Sewer Rats .559 Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#4 Pick Los Angeles Clusters .654 Playoff 2nd Round Loser
#5 Pick Arizona Desert Stars Championship LOSER
#6 Pick Toronto Moosehead BOS CHAMPS


This was a test based on 2nd Half Winning %, with only the top 2 spots up for grabs. now changing the system to the BOS Pick CHASE not only can make thing tough on team fighting for the playoff, but now we can have a 2nd race for the top two picks in the draft. no more Cruise Control in the 2nd half of the season. teams no fighting for playoffs will be active cuz they are in the race for the 1 and 2 picks. I can post results weekly. not that hard, since i just did the entire 2nd half in about 30 mins. This can be so much fun! an rather then just giving up on the 2nd half of season now things get tough for Playoff team cuz the bottom half of the league will be trying to get every win they can to get the #1 and 2 pick!

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by expos on Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:19 pm

I dont like it. Why only the top 2 spots? Why would the 3rd best winning percentage in 2n half get the worst pick of the draft for non-playoff teams? Why wouldn't teams still throw the second half knowing they will get the 3rd pick? I much prefer a consolation round.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Doug on Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:38 pm

so, are we asking a team that's been bad enough for 3 or 4 months to be eliminated from the playoffs, to magically flip a switch and be great in August? Hate to keep beating the drum here, but if participation is the issue, I don't think we fix that through the draft. Someone who isn't setting lineups in August is probably thinking about his football team, not which high school player he'll draft in 6 months.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:49 pm

Make it simple! 

Consolation bracket results determine top 6 picks. The 4 teams who did not earn consolation bracket invite pick 7-10. 

Playoff bracket determines 15/16, while 11-14 are playoff losers based on reg season win pct. 

Then adopt Performance Based Cap.

Makes the season vitally important for all, all year long. 

Picking 7th instead of first wont hamper a team from rebuilding. But it does reward the consolation winner for making a better effort to fight all year.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by expos on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:00 pm

I like that!
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by nostratimus on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:47 pm

@Doug wrote:so, are we asking a team that's been bad enough for 3 or 4 months to be eliminated from the playoffs, to magically flip a switch and be great in August? Hate to keep beating the drum here, but if participation is the issue, I don't think we fix that through the draft. Someone who isn't setting lineups in August is probably thinking about his football team, not which high school player he'll draft in 6 months.

I agree with Doug in that bad teams are bad for a reason. They def have almost no shot to turn things around in the 2nd half if they were already bad. Then to expect them to use up money or trade prospects to field a better team just to try and win top draft pick makes no sense and dictates how they should run their team…effectively eliminating the fun part of this complex league. If owners are managing bad teams because they are inactive, then we need to address that and rid the league of these owners. WIth all the guys currently on board, that doesn't seem to be an issue.

Dan, haven't heard your take about the performance-based cap system…thoughts?
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by thephilipbrown on Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:37 pm

Didn't we have a performance cap and scrapped it? 

I'm opposed to all of these proposals. If the regular season's sixth best team has a good final three weeks that doesn't make them the best team. The 22 week regular season is much more indicative of talent than the three week postseason. 

And how do you even decide who the top six FASHION are? That's so subjective. 

Can we not leave things be? If/when this goes to a vote, just mark me down as no top all
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by thephilipbrown on Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:48 pm

I'm just now responding bc I just saw this thread and i only check this once every other day or so.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by nostratimus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:34 am

@thephilipbrown wrote:Didn't we have a performance cap and scrapped it? 

I'm opposed to all of these proposals. If the regular season's sixth best team has a good final three weeks that doesn't make them the best team. The 22 week regular season is much more indicative of talent than the three week postseason. 

And how do you even decide who the top six FASHION are? That's so subjective. 

Can we not leave things be? If/when this goes to a vote, just mark me down as no top all

No, this league has never used a performance based cap. We are only 5 years old, not sure why you think we scrapped something that has never happened.

If any of these ideas come down to a vote, you can just vote yourself.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:26 am

I think he meant that the idea was brought up before and shot down. Idk if we ever had a vote.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by thephilipbrown on Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:34 pm

I thought we voted on it. I don't know. We have so many votes it's hard to keep up.

I think we're just trying to make this way more difficult & complicated than it needs to be. I'm not just saying this b/c my team is bad. Fantasy sports are supposed to be fun. All these proposals make it more work than it needs to be.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:08 pm

Well, we are always gonna be looking to perfect it. That is something that will not change. We'll never get a perfect league, but that is no reason to deter us from bettering it.

These proposals are more beneficial than having teams be half-hearted halfway through the season.

I understand that at some point, people do want to have to 'worry' about any kinds of changes. And I do get that.

But the offseason is for rule discussion/etc. Hence what we are doing.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by DmanofGod1 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:15 pm

Idk, you guys act like it's some huge change

I don't know about the performance pay scale but as for the other change.  All that's changing is the order of the minor league draft.  And it's not that complicated.  It will be based on the consolation bracket or on reverse order of winning % for the teams that don't make the playoffs.

And the reason is to make the season more competitive instead of teams packing it in midway through the season when they believe they can't win it all.  This leaves a 2nd half of the season with only like 7 or 8 of the 16 teams trying to compete.  It's not that complicated.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Xezus on Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:21 pm

What is the difference between a team that competes after the halfway point of the season and a team that doesnt? Everyone sets lineups and if they don't then we have a different problem.  I am missing the magical fix that guys can do with teams pretty much set that makes them all of a sudden get better.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by johnscrn on Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:33 pm

agree with every word Philly just said but someone is going to say the bottom teams could spend some time in the FA pool to get better. personally I think improvement at that point would be marginal and not effect the experience of players in the top half of the league (but I'm not experienced and could be wrong). As long as lineups are set then no front runners are getting an unfair strength of schedule.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Ballbasherz on Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:49 pm

Our team is our team. All the players are under contract so you just can`t drop n add like other leagues. You guys think that signing a waiver wire player in this diluted system will automatically make them better you are surely mistaken. All this supposed "going to make the league better" BS is just that BS. All you are doing is trying to complicate everything when there is nothing wrong with it to start. To be redundant your team is what it is and the talent level in fa sure as hell not going to improve anything. I don`t see a problem with anyone mailing it in. We are all suppose to be intelligent at some level so I think we realize what our teams are capable of. If they suck they suck. Fa signings aren`t going to change that.
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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:42 pm

Something like this ensures effort all throughout the season.

And in turn, it generally is going to reward the teams that make more of an effort to try, as they will more likely be the ones to win the Consolation Bracket, etc.

It's both a reward and a safeguard.

The extra benefit is a potentially more tighter league. Sure, if everyone is all 'trying harder' or whatever, the results may be the same as far as finish, but I am willing to wager anything that the disparity of the league will not be as great as it has been the last couple of years.

As Dustin spoke about, it is as if we only have 7 or 8 active teams after midseason. (Save for lineup changes, and dealing off at the deadline for next year).

These changes are not substantial or league altering, but yet, can provide so many benefits.

We are already gonna need to do something about $$$ in the coming years, so why not look into the Performance Based Cap now, along with the draft pick awarding??

I know it may sound/or read like a dramatic shift, but as Dustin said also, it is not that complicated.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:44 pm

And, in lieu of a Player's Union, Commissioner's Office, or Fans/Public Pressure sorta nudging teams to stay honest and fight, we kind of have to look at things like this.

I mean, as another point made by Dustin, if not, teams are encouraged to mail it in until they are totally ready to fight.

A system should never encourage that.

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Re: Rule suggestions for '15 (Draft Order)

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:47 pm

By the time this would take place, myself, Tim, and other playoff teams may be rebuilding. For sure Tim and I acknowledge we may be at that end of the spectrum.

And we are all too happy to take that challenge.

Otherwise, I was thinking it may be my turn to 'punt a season or two.'

But I'd much rather have a system like this so we could have a better league.

This is the best thing going. Let's keep making it better if we can!

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