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Rookie Ext Review

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:53 pm

Trying to refresh my brain with these rules! It's pretty intense. I can see why guys were like WTF!

Anyway, Help me if im wrong, but I got $7M on the contract to start with 20% increase each year after?

His 2013 season: 2m for Ks, 3m for whip, 2m for era. (paid at 100%)

season 1: 7M
season 2: 8.4
season 3: 10.08

and it continues 20% increase from the previous year all the way thru...
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by DmanofGod1 on Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:12 pm

yes and then you can take the total of all the years added together and restructure it if you want

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:50 am

So i guess my question is why is he starting at 3.6 and not 7?
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by DmanofGod1 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:58 am

Because his highest Arbitration was $3.6.  100% of $3.6 is $3.6.  So that's where he started at.

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:24 am

Ah, i read it as 100% of that arb year, not the % that knocked it down to 3.6.
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by DmanofGod1 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:44 am

Ah, yea we haven't read it like that but I can see what you are saying now.

We raised all the arb numbers last year (although lowered RP I think)  because the arb numbers were a little low especially for batters.  

But if we read it like you read it, Bumgarner would def not gotten the discount contract he received last year.  Maybe something to think about.  

But with our raised arb numbers, if we read it like you read it, no one may get extensions.  In his 1st arb year, Rizzo was 10 mil (5 mil after 50%)  

Something I need to think about.

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:06 am

Mike high Arb year was 2013 which equal 3.6M.

Now i see what bravo is saying

After each season, teams can give 1 player a contract extension. The length of the extension must be 4-6 years. The salary will be the player's highest arbitrary salary (paid at 100%) including the past season.

re-reading it i understand what your stating and you may be right (paid @ 100%) but maybe it should have been written like this for example: paid- highest ARB year with out discount.

But we been offer extension base on 100% meaning the discount arb # (3.6 = 3.6 for the first year, then 20% increase every year after).

so this is the way it is and has been for past year.
So for now it will be kept this way.

We been tweaking a few rules and we can review this one if you guys want (post in suggestion). Are ext $ not fairly paid just right, or paid too little.

I for one think they been just right.

Carlos Santana (Cle-C,1B) $11.40/ $9.40 /$9.40 /$7.40
Pedro Alvarez (Pit-3B) 7.2 for 5 years
Starlin Castro (ChC-SS) 5M for 6 years
Dayan Viciedo (CWS-LF) 3M for 4 years
Mad Bum year $5.6 $6.72 $8.06 $9.67 $11.60 $13.92

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:12 am

Of course Mad Bum is the best deal. but like dustin said if we went with 100% I promise you almost No one get the EXT contract which has been a plus for the league

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:15 am

Oh ok. Didnt realize you guys made adjustments. When i saw minor at 3.6 to start just seemed unrealistic so i looked at the system and saw where it should be 100%. But if you guys changed the numbers that changes a lot. 

Locking up rizzo at 5m to start is a joke. 10m to start isnt bad considering hed get 20-25m avg in f/a. Same with bumgarner.

I feel extensions should be a discount from f/a hnece locking up the player earlier but it shouldn't be a freebie either.

Anyway, im just a new guy here lol
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:16 am

here is the rest of the ext.

Jhoulys Chacin (Col-SP) 3.25 for 4 years
Ian Desmond (Was-SS) 5.33 for 6 years
Jaime Garcia (StL-SP) 4M for 6 years

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:21 am

bravoducci wrote:Oh ok. Didnt realize you guys made adjustments. When i saw minor at 3.6 to start just seemed unrealistic so i looked at the system and saw where it should be 100%. But if you guys changed the numbers that changes a lot. 

Locking up rizzo at 5m to start is a joke. 10m to start isnt bad considering hed get 20-25m avg in f/a. Same with bumgarner.

I feel extensions should be a discount from f/a hnece locking up the player earlier but it shouldn't be a freebie either.

Anyway, im just a new guy here lol

Agreed. Last year was are first year with Rookie Ext., and we adjusted a few numbers lets see how that effect all the rookie ext. so far only 2 have been posted Carlos and Mike. we all agree it should be a balance of fair with a discount. after all rookie ext have been posted this year with our new adjusted numbers. we can tweak if needed.

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Rookie Ext Review

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:26 am

One adjustment would be keeping the Numbers but Ext should only be 4 years period.

right now ROOKIE is 6 years deal. and extension could be 6 years for make it a max 11 years hold on a player. before RFA.

cut the ext down to 4 make it a Max 9 year hold before they become RFA and market adjust the players contract.

we should think about this.

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:41 am

Yea, 4 years is good. Thing about going to 6 with 20% increase it bounces the avg salary up quite a bit so guys may not want to go that far anyway.

I feel the avgs are way too low. Ext should allow you to avoid a 20-25m per year deal and get him for 15-20m. So you save 5m per year. Not a 20m guy for 5m avg salary. Way too much of a hometown bargain.

Should fix the language too as we have it and delete the (paid at 100%). That really threw my for a loop.
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by DmanofGod1 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:54 am

I don't think it's needed.  I doubt anyone is offering 6 year contracts.  It just gets too much by the end with escalating 20% increases.  


Yea I agree Bravo, we don't want joke contracts.  

In MLB, this is Rizzo's contract over the next 7 years because he signed an extension - $5/5/7/7/11/14.5/14.5

I know fantasy isn't the same but our system so far would be about right. If Rizzo continues to perform as he did last year, he will be making $7 or $8 mil by the time I can offer him an extension.  That's about right in line with his MLB contract.  

-You won't see extensions like Starlin Castro and Ian Desmond again.  Not with the changed arb numbers.  Those guys got lucky.  Enjoy it (thought Castro has been barely startable anyway)  

Is Mike Minor a discount?  He's only had one good fantasy year surrounded by two mediocre years.  If he pitches like 2013, this contract will be golden.  If he pitches like 2012 & 2014, I buy out this contract after two years.  So it seems about right for his production right now.     

So for right now, the rule seems about right.  Especially when you consider that the qualifications already make it so difficult for any player to even qualify for a rookie extension.

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:24 am

I'd be in favor of 4yr Max extensions. While guys escalate by 20%, with as controllable as they are, this allows them to get to FA sooner, which even if kept in RFA, allows the market to be stronger. 

I'm sorta torn, as I like/understand how we can keep n grow a team, but it's also fun n great with very healthy FAs. 

As far as the $$$ in contracts, the feel about right. Bummy was the golden contract, but I do not expect too many sweetheart deals like that. Maybe adjust SP of we see too many more. Guys like Minor will be gambles either way.

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:33 pm

Dustin, youre spot on. I think i was thinking of players getting a second extension. Those first time extentions arent as big unless youre talking stanton or trout.

Another thing we could do is assign a minimum avg salary to each contract extension length (sorta how free agency is). This way if somehow a guy slips by with an unacceptable amount he will be bounced up to the default min per year.
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:35 pm

I made sure Trout/Harper would not get extensions!

(Bought out their arb years)

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:51 pm

Why is he? Rendon too..  cant remember
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:55 pm

Another idea, lol... 

Any player in real life that's a Boris client, is a Boris client here. So the player wont accept an extension.  He will play out his rookie deal and go to free agency.

Hehe
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:59 pm

bravoducci wrote:Another idea, lol... 

Any player in real life that's a Boris client, is a Boris client here. So the player wont accept an extension.  He will play out his rookie deal and go to free agency.

Hehe

HA HA HA

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by nostratimus on Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:49 pm

I just caught on to this thread now…debating between Lawrie or Luebke! Either will be dirt cheap!!! I'll use the savings to resign Sale in a couple of years Very Happy

I like to idea of 4 yr max ext too. Gives the league access to these players at the ripe age of about 30 yrs and like somebody said, the market will correct most bargains.
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by nostratimus on Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:52 pm

bravoducci wrote:Another idea, lol... 

Any player in real life that's a Boris client, is a Boris client here. So the player wont accept an extension.  He will play out his rookie deal and go to free agency.

Hehe

Funny stuff. Maybe remove the hometown discount altogether for Boris' clients and tack on an extra 20%. Simulate the player sitting out too for half the season so he can't be rostered.

Relax Mark, nothing serious going on here Razz
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by HELLFISH on Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:20 am

nostratimus wrote:
bravoducci wrote:Another idea, lol... 

Any player in real life that's a Boris client, is a Boris client here. So the player wont accept an extension.  He will play out his rookie deal and go to free agency.

Hehe

Funny stuff.  Maybe remove the hometown discount altogether for Boris' clients and tack on an extra 20%.  Simulate the player sitting out too for half the season so he can't be rostered.  

Relax Mark, nothing serious going on here Razz

Where the like!!! cheers

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by DmanofGod1 on Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:29 am

nostratimus wrote:I just caught on to this thread now…debating between Lawrie or Luebke!  Either will be dirt cheap!!!  I'll use the savings to resign Sale in a couple of years Very Happy

I like to idea of 4 yr max ext too.  Gives the league access to these players at the ripe age of about 30 yrs and like somebody said, the market will correct most bargains.


Neither Luebke or Lawrie are eligible for extensions.  They don't have enough games started or games played which would unfairly make them dirt cheap like you said.  The qualifications for players eligible for a rookie extension are in the rulebook.   

Dan has put who is eligible for an extension to the right of the player.  For your team it is either Freddie Freeman or Chris Sale.

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by nostratimus on Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:50 am

DmanofGod1 wrote:
nostratimus wrote:I just caught on to this thread now…debating between Lawrie or Luebke!  Either will be dirt cheap!!!  I'll use the savings to resign Sale in a couple of years Very Happy

I like to idea of 4 yr max ext too.  Gives the league access to these players at the ripe age of about 30 yrs and like somebody said, the market will correct most bargains.


Neither Luebke or Lawrie are eligible for extensions.  They don't have enough games started or games played which would unfairly make them dirt cheap like you said.  The qualifications for players eligible for a rookie extension are in the rulebook.   

Dan has put who is eligible for an extension to the right of the player.  For your team it is either Freddie Freeman or Chris Sale.

I was kidding Dustin. No way in hell either of these guys will get an extension anyway when Sale and Freeman will command a tonne as RFAs in their prime. They'll be mooseheads for till the end. I'm already planning their retirement parties!
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by DmanofGod1 on Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:57 am

haha okay

my bad

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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by thephilipbrown on Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:58 pm

Keep the 6 year extension intact. If you acquired a guy worth keeping for 11 years, good for you. You should be able to keep that player. 

We don't need to have additional contract extension salary minimums. If you get a guy at a bargain, you get a guy at a bargain.
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by Johnny B on Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:25 am

Agree again PB!

Plus look at it this way.  You give a guy a 6 yr ext after year 4. So youre losing the last 2 years of his rookie contract and giving 6 so its pretty much a 4yr ext on the 6. 10yr total.
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by thephilipbrown on Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:32 am

This is getting surreal, Bravo. 

I really think we should leave it as is. Are there minor flaws? Yes. Is whatever band-aid we put on this going to expose new flaws? Yes. 

Sometimes you just gotta leave things alone because it is never going to be perfect.
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Re: Rookie Ext Review

Post by DmanofGod1 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:41 am

yea, at the most 10-11 years.  If we limited to four year extensions, then that limits it to the 4 or 5 years on the rookie contract and then four more years, making it only 8 or 9 years total.

I agree no change is necessary in this area.

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