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Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

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Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Johnny B on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:14 pm

I was looking at things and may have found somewhat of a loophole. Figured Id bring it to attention, and you can put it up for vote next year or maybe close it now if it's a benefit to the league.

So as we have it now, there are 17 RFAs. Theoretically, this could result of 17 sandwich round comp picks. That's more picks than we have in a normal round!

Now in MLB, you give up your own draft picks when acquiring RFAs. Compensatory picks that one team gives another is the highest available pick that a team has, with the exception of picks in the top half of the first round. These picks are protected from being used as compensation. If a team that picked in the top half of the first draft signs a RFA, they give up their second-round pick. And the rules go on and on, but I highly doubt any of you would want to go down this road, as much as I think it would be cool to use 1st and 2nd round picks to acquire RFAs (top half picks protected). Would give a whole lot more meaning and value to 1st and 2nd rounders.

Where I see a problem is say Team A can have 3 RFAs, make all 3 qualifying offers, collect 3 comp picks, and turn around and sign 3 RFAs owned by other teams, and those 3 teams have now acquired 3 comp picks too. So now we have 6 comp picks, all created by virtually 1 team. In MLB, Team A wouldnt have any comp picks, because they would be getting 3 picks, and giving 3 picks. 

So what I propose is for each RFA you make a qualifying offer to and lose, you get a comp pick. (This is already our rule)

And for each RFA you sign from another team, you lose a comp pick. (Rule Add)

Example (Rule Proposal) You sign 2 RFAs from other teams and lose 1 RFA of your own, you end with 1 comp pick. This way we dont have 10-15 comp picks in years, or even up to 48 picks!

Example (Rule as is) Pujols and Votto are both RFAs. If you owned either one, the wise choice would be to take your comp pick and sign the other one. Both will give solid production. Plus both teams get a pick! I see that as a loophole.

Also, a bonus fact-  if a player is traded during the final season of his contract, his new team will be ineligible to receive any compensation. That's a MLB rule. That's another story tho.

Im done rambling. You guys can table it or run with it. Im good either way. Figured Id bring it to everyone's attention.

JB
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:19 pm

I am for keeping RFA rights to be traded in the offseason, as that is something people earned, and altho not something in real life, is specific for us.

However, your proposal on comp picks pretty much being cancelled out is entirely something I would support. And given that FA is not underway yet, I would have no problem with this enacted asap.

The Votto/Pujols example is something that I actually thought about myself- and altho I'd benefit- it's better for the league if we had a change there.

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by nostratimus on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:55 pm

I agree with canceling out of comp picks and for this "loophole" to be closed now before FA opens.




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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Doug on Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:05 pm

I see where Bravo is headed with this, and he's thought it out and makes valid points. I'm not really against it, but I'm kind of from the school where we fix it once it becomes a problem. Bravo is talking about a potential problem that may not even arise. I think most people will end up signing the majority of their RFAs, but I could be proven wrong.
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:10 pm

Doug, how about you sign Votto and I sign Pujols.

We each get a quality 1b AND a comp pick.

Let's do it!


-That type of scenario is something he wants to prevent. Now, if we did discuss that, it's collusion and wrong. But let's say each of us just thought of it on our own and it worked out that way. What benefit is it to the league if you get a comp pick and a similar tier 1b, while I do and get the same?

It kinda takes away from the intent/spirit of comp picks.

May not come into play, but comp picks cancelling out should be looked into.

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Doug on Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:18 pm

I see the merits, I just don't want the rule book to become cluttered with things that we discovered later, never really came into play I the first place.
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:55 pm

Fair point. 

We could always just see how this FA goes before implementing, since we are fairly new to comp picks. 

i just think it's simple to cancel out.

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by DmanofGod1 on Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:02 am

I'm in full support of this.

The reason this hasn't gotten out of control in our league is because a 12.5/12.5 offer is pretty significant in a 175 mil cap.  And for the most part, if they have a stud, guys don't want to lose him for a sandwich pick.  

But regardless if it's out of control or not, this is a good rule.  No team should be receiving a compensatory pick if they just go out and sign another teams significant RFA!  

This was a good catch! Great to have you back JB

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by thephilipbrown on Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:29 am

Id be on board with no comp picks for losing a free agent, since they're not really related items, but I know I'll lose that battle.
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Doug on Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:32 am

Sounds like this has legs, I would just ask for simplicity. Pick a number, (say an average annual value of $18M) and if you sign someone else's RFA for that amount or more, they get your highest pick. Eliminate comp picks altogether in the interest of bookkeeping. The original owner might still be incentivized to re-sign his own guy at a little bit of a discount on a status 1 or 2 RFA.
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by DmanofGod1 on Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:52 pm

@Doug wrote:Sounds like this has legs, I would just ask for simplicity. Pick a number, (say an average annual value of $18M) and if you sign someone else's RFA for that amount or more, they get your highest pick. Eliminate comp picks altogether in the interest of bookkeeping. The original owner might still be incentivized to re-sign his own guy at a little bit of a discount on a status 1 or 2 RFA.

I think a rule saying you will only receive a compensatory pick if you don't sign another qualified RFA is pretty simple.

I also was kind of more for you and PBs rule but what about the teams that trade all their future draft picks?  Then this simplicity as you put it starts to get complicated.  Once I thought about that, JBs rule seems the simplest.

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:03 pm

^Agreed.

In the future, maybe we look to up the 12.5/12.5 QO- as MLB did change theirs- but for now, that's a sizable risk to put down.

I mean, SD put that down on Beltran last year- who had signed for 3/45- and no one here bid on him, so he got stuck. Was unfortunate, but showed the risk/reward of this system.

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Johnny B on Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:49 pm

This is MLBs:

The value of the qualifying offer changes from year to year and is determined by averaging the top 125 player salaries from the previous season. That value is set at $15.3 million for this offseason.

So we'd have to do a little math considering we have 16 teams and they have 30.

All and all, $12.5 works (or whatever number). No need to get crazy. It wouldnt be hard to get the avg of our say- top 75 with a spreadsheet and some copying/pasting.

Dont think that's the issue at hand tho..
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Johnny B on Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:52 pm

Also, as you guys can see by my avatar, ive bulked up a little over the past couple years lol
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by thephilipbrown on Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:04 pm

MLB salaries escalate whereas ours stay relatively flat bc they have no cap while we do. Just leave the number at $12.5. 

If one of your RFAs goes, you get a comp pick. If you sign someone else's, lose a comp pick. No need to worry about protected picks or anything of the sort. Let's keep it as simple as possible.
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Johnny B on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:10 am

@thephilipbrown wrote:MLB salaries escalate whereas ours stay relatively flat bc they have no cap while we do. Just leave the number at $12.5. 

If one of your RFAs goes, you get a comp pick. If you sign someone else's, lose a comp pick. No need to worry about protected picks or anything of the sort. Let's keep it as simple as possible.
Agree 100%
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by HELLFISH on Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:54 am

@thephilipbrown wrote:MLB salaries escalate whereas ours stay relatively flat bc they have no cap while we do. Just leave the number at $12.5. 

If one of your RFAs goes, you get a comp pick. If you sign someone else's, lose a comp pick. No need to worry about protected picks or anything of the sort. Let's keep it as simple as possible.
Agreed with pb adjustment to rule. 
We can just close loop hole now. Has not been a problem due to 12.5/12.5 but yeah if u sign other team rfa that had a QO for comp pick then u lose the comp pick u may have gained. 1 for 1

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by HELLFISH on Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:00 pm

Also I like to add if u trade rfa right of a player then u should not be allowed to place a bid on that player. One u have been paid for that player and two u may be give up a comp pick to new owner. I feel this is a hoop hole.

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by thephilipbrown on Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:43 pm

1) I would like the record to show Bravo & I agree on something. 

2) I don't think you should be barred from bidding on someone you traded. If two owners collude on a RFA player, getting a comp pick isn't a great return for losing picks/prospects/players and the RFA player. If someone wants to be dumb enough to do make that trade, let 'em. 

Also, there's no guarantee the original team wins the bid anyhow. I see what you're trying to do, I just don't think its a necessity
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Johnny B on Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:33 pm

Glad we agree PB, for once!

But, i think I agree with Dan on his point. I dont like the trading of rights to begin with, but if you all do which im assuming you do since it was voted in, I think if you do deal a guy for rfa rights you definitely shouldnt be able to reacquire him since you gave up his rights for assets already.

Sort of a collusion thing going on there...
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by thephilipbrown on Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:50 pm

I get what you're saying. I just don't think the return is enough. Say I trade Lindor & 2 picks for Votto's RFA rights. The original team re-signs him, effectively getting Votto, Lindor & picks while I get the (at best) 17th pick in the draft. I can't see anybody making a handshake deal for that. 

I just don't think a team should be excluded from bidding. I'm indifferent on RFA being traded but I fail to see how any team would agree to the above scenario.
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:33 pm

I dealt Cano's rights, bid him up, and now paying the extra since I dealt for him back this year. 

Fantasy karma will always come back!

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by Ballbasherz on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:19 pm

I dealt basically a 4th + 5th rd pick for Cargo`s rights with all intention of not resigning him and getting the comp. pick. Trading 58/78 for future 17 is a pretty good deal in my book. The only way this doesn`t work is if Cargo isn`t bid up very high and remains a bargain to keep.
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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

Post by HELLFISH on Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:52 am

@thephilipbrown wrote:If one of your RFAs goes, you get a comp pick. If you sign someone else's, lose a comp pick. No need to worry about protected picks or anything of the sort. Let's keep it as simple as possible.

We can agree this will close the loophole. i will amend rule book.

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Re: Compensatory picks (BoS Rule Talk)

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