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Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

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Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:15 pm

Considering Japanese players are posted and not drafted, why should we have them in the draft, like we did with nishioka?

My idea is that if a guy (well, mainly yu darvish) is posted this off-season, we all make a bid for him

I'd say a secret posting but there's no real fair way to conduct that, so why not a public auction for signing rights

Bid must include an upfront fee + contract in the bid

I think it'd be solid

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:54 pm

Interesting...

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Ballbasherz on Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:50 pm

so basiclly the team with the most cash will win the bid= Ariz Boston, no one else will have or does have the the cash to make this competative. this reeeks of JI tryin to pul a fast one
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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:13 pm

okay well, lets make it a secret bid-- to a person not affiliated with baseball, that way no one will know the amount of the bid til it is answered

sure, yu darvish is gonna command a dicek like fee, but how much will someone bid for signing rights??

it's just unrealistic for him to be in the draft on a rookie deal and unrealistic to be complete fa

this is realistic middle ground

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by HELLFISH on Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:46 am

I think the way it is handled now is just now. Unlike the real world we have a cap. Place them or even the Cuban and Latin players in our rookie draft is the best way to get these players. no reason to place the jap play in secret bid? is that money going to their make believe jap team?

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Ballbasherz on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:01 am

and again my objection to the whole thing is that only the teams w/cash can enter the bidding. NOT FAIR
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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:32 am

its just unrealistic for yu darvish or even leonys martin of the rangers to be under a rookie contract when they will certainly have much more $$$ in their contracts and werent drafted by major lg teams

top international fa's should be posted or something...

and mark-- sure, teams with cash would have an advantage but if it were a secret bid, bravo may bid 21mil upfront plus like 5 mil a year and next highest bid is prob only 10 upfront and 3 per year, thus bravo paying 11more upfront than he thought cuz it was secret bid

look at the redsox paying dice's old team 51.1 mil which was wayyyy higher than anyone else

if someone wants to take a laaaaaaaarge chunk of their cap in a secret bid, that leaves more FAs they cant buy and thus, benefit the rest of league


i really believe in this idea and if fine tuned-- would better serve the realism of the league, which is our goal

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Doug on Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:47 am

I guess if we're going for realism, we have to consider Integrity's proposal, and if adopted, I would be in favor of a secret one time bid like MLB does. As far as only the teams with $$$ being involved, wouldn't that be the case when Pujols, Fielder etc hit free agency in our league? When their price tag reaches the $20 level that will knock out certain teams, who can't afford that. There are advantages to having cap room, and these are the kinds of things an owner has to take into consideration when deciding how to spend. If Darvish is the example, when someone spends $20 on him, that's $20 they can't spend in other places. We do get a break with the minor league draft, as whoever takes Gerrit Cole in next year's draft won't have his $8M signing bonus to deal with. I could see it either way really, post these guys, or include them in the draft. I'm ok with whatever we decide, I don't think it's a game changer no matter how it's decided.



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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:02 am

am sorry but in the case of any rookie be that foreign or domestic we have a system that works.

You talk about foreign players that get top $ to come play here or Jap players that mlb teams have to buyout contracts (reason for Blind Bidding in MLB) but are kids here in the USA get paid tons of bonus money to sign once drafted, should we not apply a $$ bonus to all our draft choices then.

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:29 am

well we have a system FOR DRAFTED PLAYERS

now im asking for a system FOR POSTED PLAYERS

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:59 am

no we have a system for Rooks not just draft but all minor league players. should we change it to something like VSF only players in current draft can be drafted by our team. If your thinking of changing one pert of our rookie draft then change it all then. any player not drafted in that years draft by us now can only be signed a an FA then you get one shot at drafting a player? i mean if were going to be realistic about it right.

what we have is good. no need to change it. we can't not do blind bids when we have a cap. good example of this is ricky rubio in the NBA. they have a cap, player is drafted that nba team not allowed to payoff player foreign contract so now min waits till contract is over.

this rule is just hard to put in play even with a blind bid. since team that don't spead cash to more likely win or a much have better chance of signed foreign players. when in the real world team that spend money to win are more likely earning more money.

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by thephilipbrown on Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:23 pm

I'm siding with the against crowd in this instance. We don't have to pay signing bonuses for Rule 4 draft guys. Also, the majority of these international signs perform like league average players anyhow.

Additionally, these international signs, for the most part, sign at 16 & then are sent to the minors a year or two later. So we're burning a 40 man spot and salary on guys sitting in the minors.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea; I just think we already have a system in place that equalizes things (though I would say to manage your better if that's the reason you're against this).
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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:01 pm

well i see this is different than draft or international signing as there is a posting mechanism in place

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:09 pm

I love the idea. I'm not exactly sure how often we would use it. I do like the idea of anyone and everyone that is eligible for the minors to be in the draft.

Setting up.blind bids would be easy. I.could make a form like the disabled list. Everyone that watys to bid, bids. Once completed I open up the document and post the spreadsheet on the forum.I

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:23 pm

a Posting mechanism for japs that are really posted in real life would be perfect, imo

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:39 pm

So, this wouldt be for all international? Only Japs?

I know a lot of the money that goes to an international signing goes to the newbies country or team. I think this is a little more complex than we're making it out to be. That said, I still Like it.

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Ballbasherz on Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:35 pm

this is a fantasy league that wants to mirror the pros. in all realitity it realy cant because of some of the dynamics of the mlb and i think this is one of them. this league is fun and challanging. i think if we get into these waters and beyond we will be having guys loose interest because of the depth. we are going into a major expansion now so we don`t need anymore league altering changes at this point. there will be other suggestions/comments during the off season on how to improve. all that said im against invoking any new rules of major porportion at this time. i mean is this guy realy that good that we need to overhaul our whole structure for? i doubt it. lets take it into consideration in the off season and carefuly plan out something instead of putting something in place in a hurry just to accomodate this guy.
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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:19 pm

i am not against this idea but if we were to implement it i would warn every team to be brood. considering boston and az have the money as mark so kindly testified to i imagine in my mind ji pushing the boundaries on darvish putting him in the red with the decreased cap Razz

its important to note there are plenty of international players every year. 10 would be a good average number per year that come out. not all of them will be stars but this makes it an important market for mlb and for us.

im thinking a realistic number for most of the international players in our league should go for say 5-10 mil in postage fee and even that is pushing it in my opinion. because we have war chests it adds another dimension where those teams can choose whether to load up and pad their cap for the players they have or use it to post on an international player; more options.

i am reminded when bravo said something along the lines of, 'you were living beyond your means if you go over the cap' so the posting fee might not even be the issue to begin with.

seems like the one issue is darvish. i dont really see a problem there. the kid is good but if his posting fee goes through the roof, good for whoever posted it, but it may create financial problems down the road.

id hate to see a team mess up his budget because of it but at the same time, you reap what you sow. if i wasn't clear i am definitely for this.


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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:22 pm

how about we only use the posting feature when rare players such as darvish come out??

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:32 pm

U can't really say who is rare and who isn't. There won't be a rare list posted pre postseason.

Also, to marks last comment. Id never like to dismiss anything because its complicated or may scare members away. If its too complicated it deep, find a yahoo public league. We are chasing the baseball fantasy dream.

Wait until you see my next proposal tomorrow night!

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:35 pm

lol JI just over pay the the #1 pick and there you have it you gots your darvish

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:45 pm

well id determine a rare guy if a real life team pays over 10mil posting fee, lol

or we can say 20, just to make sure

our draft n fa wont start with them in it til they are posted n paid for anyway

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:53 pm

Something like this wouldn't take effect until the following season so get the darvish talk out of this topic!

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:54 pm

Should we apply this sign bonuses to our draft rookies to?
Washington Nationals Bryce Harper $6,250,000
Pittsburgh Pirates Jameson Taillon $6,500,000
Baltimore Orioles Manny Machado $5,250,000
Kansas City Royals Christian Colon $2,750,000
Cleveland Indians Drew Pomeranz $2,650,000


this is just the top five guys i could have put the entire 1st round for some dramatic effect. lol

You know this would make it realistic right JIList Here

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:02 pm

He's a got a point...

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:13 pm

my 5-10 mil range was merely a safety zone in terms of the better hyped international players like dice k before and darvish in the future. if a team feels they can offer more and stay within their means than by all means go for it but be prepared to suffer the consequences per se.

this is exactly what im thinking:

-latin players usually go for between 1-4 mil in postage fees sometimes lower. with that in mind we should start bidding around 100K (not exact just an example) and to raise a minimum of 100K with the 3 bids per team in mind. everyone can join the party if they'd like

-there should definitely be a rule for minor league eligibility for all international guys but they must be called up whenever they make the big leagues.(contract not starting until they are up)

the japanese guys tend to start immediately while the latins player may take up to 6 years. (reason why they are usually paid lower, lots of developing to do).

-i would say there should be designated salaries for our international market (differing from our milb system of arbitration). this way, you assume all risk as much as reward. boston are stuck with dice k because he sucks and its an ugly contract. ergo you reap what you sow.

-its important to know that international players are under team control for 3 years and you shouldnt be allowed to trade them within that time (thats precisely assuming the risk reward)

-if you push a post beyond 10 M for a guy the player must be paid 10 mil per year (again just an idea) for at least 3 years. the winning bidder can choose whether he goes the minimum 3 years or up to 6 years at 10 mil. you get a pretty decent deal for the player if he lives up to the hype or you are stuck with him for three years until you are allowed to trade him

- if the post is between say 5-10 its around 5-10 mil per year for at least 3 years and yadda yadda.

-if the post is under 5 mil the contract is under 5 mil for a minimum of at least 3 years. hope this is easy to follow so far.

if we did do this obviously its another separate signing period from free agency.

the only objection that comes to mind right off the bat is the inability to trade them but then again they would need at least one professional season to help or even hurt their trade value.

the biggest thing if this went through is the gambling phase; which is exactly what the international market is. if teams can just dump guys after bidding on them there is no point in doing it. you must assume the risks as much as the reward.[color=#000000 ! important][color:e4e5=#000000 ! important]

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:44 pm

I like where Jay is going
As for Dan's point-- if Bryce gets his stats he's making 22 over 5 which is equivalent to what he signed for


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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by HELLFISH on Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:05 pm

I like where jays going! much better idea then the blind bid system JI wants. lol

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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by nostratimus on Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:24 am

Finally got a chance to catch up in this int'l posting idea.

After reading all the ideas, I too, like where Jay is going with this. I was gonna chirp in and say, similar to Jay, that int'l guys like Darvish should be drafted but there salary differs from our milb scale (obviously much more). This may not work for latin players since somebody mentioned that they tend to go thru the usual minor league development route too.

What I really like about Jay's proposal is that if drafted/signed, you cannot trade the player for at least 3 years.

I think we're going somewhere with this.
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Re: Baseball Off-season Idea for Japanese players *Input needed*

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:09 pm

trying to mimic baseball as best as possible so i would like to see that 3 yrs trade rule. just have to made sure we incorporate the other int rule where the player must play one professional season until the team is allowed to dump him.

i was originally thinking that rule might not bode well as teams would 'cop out' but its not really that bad. if you're talking about the players making 5+ mil per season because the post fee was high then the team is still hit pretty hard even with the use of a buyout.

if youre talking about a player who got less than a 5 mil fee, they can follow the length of contract rules already in place. (if we use 3 mil as an example) that player should be offered a minimum 3 yrs at 3 mil unless you choose to go 4 years still at 3 mil ,5 yrs at 4 mil, or 6 yrs at 5 mil.

so a player who landed a bid less than a million would still get a 3 yr 2 mil deal at minimum. no stress to trade them away because they that is money off the books as they become free agents. but if they do terrible after their first professional season to the point where you want to drop them you are allowed to but of course you still have to pay the remaining salary.

if that same player who was posted for less than a million was given a contract longer than 3 years you can either wait 1 professional season to dump him or you wait the 3 years to try and trade him.

on top of that, all the int players should not have rfa status

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