Glascow/Sydney BLOCKBUSTER HOOPS trade

GLASCOW RECIEVES
Glen Davis $3.5/$4.5/$5.75*
Channing Frye $2.5/$2.5
JJ Hickson $2.5/$3/$3.5/$8.75*
Tobias Harris $1/$2/$3
Kyle Lowry $15/$18/$22/$22/$27.5*
Perry Jones $1/$1/$2/$3

SYDNEY RECIEVES
Derrick Rose $7.5/$7.5/$9.38*
Andrew Bogut $11.25/$9/$6.75/$6.75/$14
Tyreke Evans $3/$3/$4.5*

Rebuild complEte - Barnes for championship RUN and Kiefer for total rebouild/youth movement

Hard to move those three but I need decent young guys. Perry better get as good as I think he can be. I confirm

I actually think Tobias will be better than Perry, hes a stud and likely a breakout year coming, I wanted to keep him! He will satrt for the Bucks.

wow

honestly, this will prob be vetoed

just a heads up

im not commish here but this is BAD

that pile isnt worth Rose alone let alone bogut/tyreke imo

i officially protest this, as i do not see any legit angle for kiefer

not my call to veto but as a league member, i have a right to Protest publicly

This.... Is a horrible trade.

i'll concede that MAYBE a case for Rose (out for most the yr) is worth the pile (altho $$$ diff is skewed) OR bogut/tyreke maayyybe close to being worth it but even that is a stretch imo

but the 3 for 1? no f'n way...just imbalances the league too much

Consider that Tyreke and boguT yielded melo

yea, this is too lopsided

someone can always 'win' a trade and that's fine but when it goes overboard like this, gotta speak up

everyone entitled to tehir opinion. Of course Kyle Lowry was the number 9 ranked player before he went down with injury - well ahead of anyone I am getting in return and ehs in a even BETTER situation in Toronto which si now his team in a high octane offense.

Lets have a look at this:
Bogut - hasnt played for 2.5 years, still ahsnt been cleared for 5 on 5 and has a long deal to go.
Tyreke - ranked about 80 last year but generally regressed at the end and looks garbage in preseason.
Rose - Isnt even going to play this year and even when he did play he wasnt better tahn lowry 1 for 1. Also players taht base tehir agme on athleticism and speed can be very affected by full reconstructive surgery on their knee. guys ahve missed two season because of this or had tehir careers ruined.

If you havent put all thsi together yet I am taking a huge risk here both on atlent level and contracts. I can do that in te position I am in, Ill gamble.

kiefer on the other hand cant be bogged down by boguts contract or settle for risk reward - he needs young contracts, rookie deals and generally more players.For teh same money hes doubling his players form 3 to 6 and possible only Tyreke really plays this year but 5 out of 6 guys hes getting ALL play.

The flexibility he gets is great, 2 guys on long rookie deals that look teh goods in jones and harris and can go into D league, 2 young guys in glen davis and JJ who are starting big men and breakout candidates on CHEAP deals, Kyle Lowry only 25 11/12 seaosn first half 9 ranked player and is a superstar, and whilst channing Frye wont play he will next year and is on an expiring deal anyway but hey if he performs anywhere enar where he can he will be an asset next year.

A veto is normally a deal that is insanely lopsided and makes no sense. id ahte to think in this league stuff is vetoed just ebcause you wouldnt do it. This is not insanely lopsided and it makes sense - kiefer rebuilds gets a star and young talent as well as filling out his roster, I take a gamble some of tehse guys may come good to put me over the top. Its pretty clear I think.

I just did a draft, Lowry went RD2, Glen davis RD8 and JJ RD 11 for example, comparitively Rose went RD11 and Bogut RD10. Tyreke was RD9 form memory.

No offense to anyone, but i dont see the big deal here.

you are not taking a risk in contracts when getting out of lowry

tyreke is soooooooo undervalued contract wise

rose has one of the best contracts too

bogut is paid fairly for being a capable big

lowry vastly overpaid

this is insanely lopsided and crazy that you cant see it

i know you gotta defend getting the big score but yea, let's not insult anyone's intelligence either

sure, in one yr leagues, rose is going low but this is a DYNASTY

Rose would go much higher if we drafted right now for long term, especially with the contracts

Shit, people may all pass on Lowry and that contract lol

and this thing about rose out for the year when ur dumping frye who is out for the year as well, lolol

him eating frye is prob = to harris and/or perry, in terms of value u can get if you sold those contracts

i will concede again that Lowry can play

which is why in the post above i said mayyybe rose straight or bogut/tyreke package if $$$ was paid, as i do understand lowry has talent

so please dont think im insulting you either

just, this 3 for the pile is one of the worst deals ive ever seen

Your exaggerating this immensely cos your upset mate.

If this is the worst deal you've seen you haven't been in many leagues or played much, but I know tahts not the case so in not going to insult your intelligence either.

Well I've been in many leagues yes and there have been lots of vetoes in this league in the beginning...and even some lately, tho they're occurring less and less.

This league and these forum leagues are diff than most, if not all leagues tho since we're a dynasty with contracts.

We have to look beyond this year and sorta gauge longterm/short term when assessing a trade.

In looking at value/risk, this deal is just too imbalanced imo. It's not so much that I'm upset, but I have a right to protest when I feel something is unfair for the league.

nah I know you have a right to protest an everything, no problem there and as I said I dont take offence.But as I said I completely disagree - if lebrons on 100m committed over 3 years and you trade him are you'getting out' of his contract? A crude example I know, but getting out of money is when you owe someone a lot and they arent any good.

Dynasty league or whatever Kyle Lowry was one of the top fantasy players last season. Im losing an asset. He outperofrmed rudy gay SIGNIFICANTLY last season and is YOUNGER and is on a deal thats the same...if rudy agy gets tarded is someone simply getting out of his deal? Its a slippery slope there buddy.

If I were to put down the splits for the players I am giving up it would knock this whole arghument out fo the water but i really dont ahve time right now maybe later!

1st half of last season prior to injury and houston imploding lowry was a beast. 2nd half of last season when satrting JJ and big Baby were beasts, somewhere around 18 and 10 with a block and steal EACH, now tehse situations that saw them perform at taht elvel are not only continuing but ins omeone like lowrys acse IMPROVING. Stats on Stats they kill a helathy bogut and a healthy Tyreke, contarct wise and down the road. Thats 3 guys under 25 with prime stats and ready to go this year and the ones after. Tobias has looked great and is the confirmed starter in milwaukee now as well, and perry jones is a godo prospect.

Again, say bogut and tyreke and rose were all healthy if you actually compare teh splits of davsi, JJ and lowry taht I mentioned their is not much difference at all, tehn you ahve 2 rookie contracts taht are pretty avluable as jones and tobias are good players, and frye wll be when he plays last year and hes on noothing anyway.

We can have a difference of opinion but all the stats are there to see if you compare them properly.

14 and 6 for lowry
22 and 8 for rose

what am i missing?

and, u cant just pick the best of what your guys have to offer and ignore everything else

bogut's missed time, yes but not 2 years. lowry hasnt been healthy for a full season.....ever

rose is out with fluke (acls arent commonplace)

and again, lowry can play but at that contract vs 7.5 for rose going forward, it's just no contest. Rose better player. Rose better contract.

Your basically implying that Lowry and his contract is better than Rose and his contract all cuz Lowry is guaranteed to start the year and Rose may miss most, if not all, this yr, as the only way to justify this deal is to make Lowry > Rose, which is far out of whack

but let's give you this...

say hickson/baby/frye/pj3 = bogut (him getting pj3 for eating frye and then baby/hickson for bogut which is a stretch, but just giving it to ya here based on ur 'stats' argument)

that still leaves lowry/tobias for rose/evans.

c'mon man!

Im not picking the best stats, im picking what they have most recently done and the situations they are in. looking at stats lowry has performed at derrick rose level when starting, rose has a better contract yes, although again how much of that 3 years do I get and when its done im paying him $25m a year for sure anyway which isnt great.

My argument isnt lowry is better than rose anyway, even though performance wise its close.

Its if your saying thats the worst deal in history your really exagerrating and I dont think your looking at it objectvely. When its 6 players to a team rebuilding and theyy are giving up 3 its hardly ever going to be a lowry vs rose only aspect to it.

Its not Glen davis for lebron straight up and kiefer has a need to rebuild his roster with guys that arent hurt and are young with upside on good deals. its a 6 for 3 swing for him and 2 of the 3 may not even play this year and guys like bogut maybe a bust his whole career.

heres some stats for you:

	Min	Pct	3	Pct	Tot	Ast	TO	Stl	Blk	PPG
big baby	30:18	49.7	0.1	70.2	8.3	0.9	1.5	1.3	0.5	15.5
JJ	32:06	47.4	0	68.4	9.3	1.2	1.9	0.5	0.8	13.2
lowry	35:30	41.7	1.8	87.2	5.3	7.6	3.1	2.1	0.3	15.6
frye	26:06	41.6	1.4	89	5.9	1.4	1	0.7	1.1	10.5
rose	35:12	43.5	1.4	81.2	3.4	7.9	3.1	0.9	0.7	21.8
bogut	30:18	44.9	0	60.9	8.3	2.6	2	1	2	11.3
evans	34:17	45.3	0.3	77.9	4.6	4.5	2.7	1.3	0.5	16.5

even with these stats, it's hard to say hickson/baby/scraps for bogut alone

still leaves lowry for rose/evans

or even if we gave u bogut/evans for hickson/baby/frye/tobias/perry which is unfair itself, comes down to lowry/rose man

the only way to even make this somewhat justifiable is to have lowry>rose which is obv no where near the case

i'd take 14/4/4 from evans and his contract over lowry at even 18/6 from his...and thats spotting ya some points lolol

these stats didnt paste properly but are the most recent production when all these guys have started. For lowry its pre injury. Theres not a lot of difference in the numbers. This does not include: young guys on rookie deal like tobias and perry, and i wont even start to mention how tobias is now the starter, nor will I mention every guy Im giving is in a BETTER situation this coming season than they were last compared to everyone im getting being in a far worse situation (yes frye is far worse off this season but ehs teh only one), or the litiny of players who struggled to come back form a knee injury like rose, or the chance of bogut playing consistently when he ahsnt played for two years, nor will I mention tyreke today was told he may be used as 6th man and not even start. Looking at contracts every deal im giving is very good minus lowry which you can say is large but I say is on teh money so we can split teh difference tehre, boguts deal is bad cos he may never play cosniistently and is on the hook for a lot of years and rose is on a good deal taht i may only get 1 season out of before I pay him max. In regards to rose I will also refrain form mentioning teh following names: barndon roy and greg oden (how are those guys doing now after similar knee surgery?)

Just looking at stats it doesnt look that bad. Let alone other factors and risks.

Ill also mention I was also happy to include pierce in liu of the D leaguers but kiefer prefferred young rookie contracts

the rest of stats:

	TO	Stl	Blk	PPG
big baby	1.5	1.3	0.5	15.5
JJ	1.9	0.5	0.8	13.2
lowry	3.1	2.1	0.3	15.6
frye	1	0.7	1.1	10.5
rose	3.1	0.9	0.7	21.8
bogut	2	1	2	11.3
evans	2.7	1.3	0.5	16.5

so big baby performed better than bogut and is paid over two years on a low ball deal in a situation where hes the man and hes 26, yet you think big baby isnt worth a injured bogut with 5 years committment on double teh deal who didnt perform at big babys level and is soon to be 28 and literally has not played ahrdly for 2 years?

i just need to make sure I have that part right? cos if your looking at stats and contarcts and situation big baby beats bogut 1 on 1 without including anyone else.

bogut is a 12/9 guy wit 2 blocks. inj risk yes, but obv a capable big always

baby/jj 'could be' players but also could flame out again. i can see baby/jj/frye/harris/pj3 for bogut and it being justified. giving evans with bogut is an epic win but even if that was allowed, still comes down to lowry/rose

and there's nothing to get lowry near rose in terms of value

rose with two cheap years after this and rfa rights is >>>> lowry

sorry man, there's just no justification in my eyes.

guess we'll see how everyone else feels but kiefer needs jj/baby/harris to all exceed expectations to be = or near bogut/tyreke, which is too much risk on his part, without counting rose/lowry

this is just awful and imbalanced in every conceivable way.

appreciate your speaking up to present your case tho. just dont see how you'll win it

well theres a reason baby wasnt highly sought in fa...which just happened

he had those good splits but overall his numbers were pedestrian

you're taking a leap of faith that baby will put up those in orl as the starter

surely you dont honestly believe baby > bogut alone, no? if you and kiefer do, then perhaps it helps understand this deal more....still doesnt come close but helps to see ur points more, but still wayyy off

It doesnt have to be an even deal or agreeable to everyone but the reason im taking exception to this so much (again not personally so dont worry we are still buds ) is that you are saying this deal is horribly lopsided and veto material and there is no reason for kiefer to do it and ITS THE WORST DEAL YOU HAVE SEEN.

But the stats, the situations, the injuries, upcomming season, Kiefers needs and my needs are all there plain to see so its more than a little exageration on your part.

Im in many leagues every year and I play in experienced once, very rarely have I seen a veto of a deal - because in those sort of leagues you accept people know what they are doing and it would need to be lebron for tyreke evans for there to be a discussion.

To me it seems this deal is not agreeable to everyone, but its certainly not in the ballpark of veto and should be up to the 2 managers making te dal?